

Its time for Our El Classico, Our Eternal Derby
By: Rob | March 12th, 2009
Biggest game of this weekend, by quite some distance is the biggest game of the season. Make no mistake, when Man United play Liverpool, the world watches. Just like Barcelona/Real, Boca Juniors/River Plate or Rangers/Celtic, this is one of the great “derby” matches. The two most succesful clubs in English football, going head to head over ninety minutes.
It looked for awhile like the title might be decided by this fixture. While that looks less and less like it could be the case, don’t be fooled into thinking this means nothing. Neither set of fans values any game quite like this one.
So I thought it would be timely to have a look at the derby, at the history, at why the two sides loathe each other so, as well as remember some classic matches from down the years. The game, FYI kicks off on Saturday, at midday, partly so it can be live on the telly, and partly to try and stop the fans getting too wasted beforehand.
The rivalry between the two cities goes back to the industrial revolution. While England led the world in technology then, it produced mass changes in the cities of the country. Manchester immediately benifited and became the leader in the textile industry. Liverpool’s position of the countries formost port, and gateway to America meant that the two cities, despite being in relative spitting distance from one another, could both grow and grow.
Unlike the derbies in Rome, Barca/Real or indeed the River Plate/Boca Juniors rivary, the similarities, not the differences between Manchester and Liverpool and the most striking. Both are inherently working class cities, and both have a history of strong Irish immagration. They are only 35 miles apart, and historically have thrived on one another. In the North-West there is a phrase “Manchester made and Liverpool trade”, referring to the histories of the cities in the industrial revolution.
Untill the economic downturn of the late 1800’s, Liverpool and Manchester got on rather well. But with the downturn came worker migration, and Liverpool put the price up on the import rates in order to keep the city moving. Manchester responded by giving the city access to the sea, and cutting out the middleman.
And so the Manchester Ship Canal was built, 40miles inland, and became the third biggest port in England. Ever wondered why the Man United badge has a boat in it, despite being from a city 40 miles in land? Well that’s why.
It didn’t matter anyway in the long run. With the fall of the British Empire, the need for a port became less, and indeed the fall of the Textile industry came soonafter. Both cities fell in decline, for generation after generation. Its only recently that both have made an attempt to futurise.
And yet, both cities have always done well for themselves. In art, in music, in sport. Somehow, this only fuels the rivalry between the people of both cities.
So then, why Manchester United and why Liverpool? Both cities have other teams – Manchester City and Everton, why don’t they share a massive rivalry? Indeed before the Second World War, there was no real rivalry between the two clubs, as they were both the lesser in their respective cities. Alot of fans, it should be noted, don’t believe any of the above has anything to do with the rivalry. Indeed, its curious that Everton play Man City and no-one thinks twice about it.
In the 1950s, fans would go to each others games. If you lived in Manchester, and United were away, you’d go and watch Liverpool, or City or Everton, whoever was home, instead. There would be a bit of banter between the fans, but no trouble, afterall, at least you got to go and watch the game. In 1966, Legendary Liverpool player and even-more Legendary United Manager Matt Busby was named captain of an all-time Liverpool side. Its unthinkable now, and not just because they’ve had so many good players since.
How then has the rivalry between two undoubtedly great clubs gone from that, to what it is today? And believe me when I say, its nasty today. Walk around either Manchester or Liverpool on North-West Derby Weekend (side note, we need a better name for it than that), and you’ll see horrendous, nasty graffiti. “Hillsborough 98″ (a reference to the 96 people who died in the horrific disaster) will be freshly painted on bridges and walls. Chants inside the staduim coming from the Liverpool end will feature lines like “Who’s that dying in the snow”, a reference to the Munich air disaster. While both these come from a minority, how did it get to that?
It kicked off with United’s success in the 1960s. After the fall of the Busby Babes, came an arguably even better side in the 1960s, winning leagues and in 1968, the Champions League, or European Cup as it was then known. United were the first English team to do it.
The 1960s also bought the last direct transfer between the clubs, Phil Chisnal in 1964. The 1970s bought a changing of the guard, as Liverpool dominated at home and in Europe. It carried on to the 80s, and by the time United had climbed back to the top, Liverpool had won four European Cups and 11 league titles. United went 26 years without a league title.
The swing went back to United in the 90s, as Sir Alex’s United dominated the 90s, and 00s, picking up two more Champions Leagues. Asked what his greatest achievement as United manager was, Fergie once repled “Knocking Liverpool off their fucking perch”. Now there’s a man who understands a rivalry. The rivalry had gotten serious sometime in the late 70s.
Ron Atkinson, United’s manager in the 1980’s and a Scouser himself, described going to Anfield as like going to Vietnam. If it sounds like he’s exagerrating, well he’s side’s coach had been tear-gassed on the way into the city. Clayton Blackmore got the worst of the fumes, and couldn’t play the match.
Liverpool fans started singing about the 1958 Munich Air disaster as things got nastier. They stopped after Hillsborough, although a small number of United fans have taken to singing about the 1989 disaster, and so singing about Munich is back on the menu.
For every Liverpool fan who sings those songs though, there are thousends who are repulsed by it. The same goes for United fans. In the right places, away from the hooligans and nastiness, the friendly rivalry that once shone through still sits. Lets hope it sits happily at the weekend.
The game on Saturday is at Old Trafford, where United have won 36 times, Liverpool 14 times, and there have been 25 draws. At Anfield, Liverpool have won 36 times, United 22 times, and there have been 18 draws.
Here are some classics to get you in the mood.
Some Related Premier League Posts:
Comments
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Too bad all EPL big-4 derbies end 0-0 or 1-0….and Italy is boring.


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I would not equate Liverpool vs MU to a derbi match. Such a thing does not exist in the EPL. There is no social, cultural or political context to the match, there is no hatred do to years of repression or the subsequent backlash. Madrid vs. Barcelona takes on a context far greater then just spot, Manchester United vs. Liverpool is just another 0-0 or 1-0 game in the EPL schedule as alessio said.


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The narrow mindedness is shocking. There is a whole, well thought out and well written article about why this is a rivalry game. There’s no set formula to make a rivalry, each forms from its own history. Great article.


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Its funny that the reverse fixture was 2-1, and this fixture finished 3-0 last season. So, yeah, its always 0-0.
I do understand the difference between the United/Liverpool rivalry and the Barca/Real one, thats sort of what the post is about, exploring why the two tribes hate each other, even though there isn’t as clear cut a reason for it as Barca and Reals. To suggest that the game isn’t a derby, well, thats a bit silly. I’ve lived in Manchester, and the city changes at the weekend Liverpool play United.
There’s plenty of context in the rivalry of the cities, thats where it goes above and beyond.


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Well, all I know is that if I went to a Manc pub in Trafford or Salford and started saying that Liverpool would run rings around Man Utd I would get my head kicked in. Would that happen in Madrid? So does that mean that El Classico is not a real derby either? You simply don’t understand the mentality of the people there — they’re the true heart of this sport: you wont find them whistling at their own players or waving their hankies demanding to be entertained.


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Among the big four this year…
Man Utd. 3-0 Chelsea
Liverpool 2-1 Man Utd.
Liverpool 2-0 Chelsea
Arsenal 2-1 Man Utd.
Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea
Liverpool 1-1 Arsenal
Chelsea 1-1 Man Utd.So yeah, it’s always 1-0 or 0-0. They are usually cagey affairs, but they are big matches none the less. You’d think supporters of clubs who just got put to the sword by big four clubs would be a little more respectful of Premiership clubs…but then again, their losses are because there’s boardroom turmoil and there’s too many politics in their clubs or the refs were out to get them. Us Liverpool supporters aren’t familiar with that at all. Is it possible to be xenophobic when you’re posting from the US about clubs in Spain having better rivalries than clubs in England? Or from Spain about clubs in Italy? Is this like third person twice removed? George is getting very upset…


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Forgot the Liverpool 1-0 Chelsea at the Bridge…but 1 out of 8 ain’t bad…


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Brilliant article. Very interesting, and I can’t believe people are trying to say its ‘not a real derby’ or that it will be ‘boring’.


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It’s cool Ed, Serie A fans have been dealing with negative stereotypes from the British press for 40+ years now..only natural we tifosi are a bit put off.


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Great post, Rob. It always bugged me to consider the match a derby but even though the cities are far apart, it’s a match of just pure hate. I wouldn’t deny that it’s a derby anymore, the hate is what makes it one.


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good to know the juve and real guys came in to show they don’t know dick outside of their own teams. back of the bus, fellas…you know…back there with your team. this is the best match of the year for me and when liverpool gets manhandled this weekend it’ll be even sweeter. i do feel an awesome and nervewracking game coming on and am frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriggin pumped. there are derbies in which slicker footy is played, where there may be more dictators shadows involved, or which the matches are bought or sold (shove it again you two freaks at the top)…but lately there hasn’t been one that i’ve seen which is more attuned to some sort of chaotic mix of guy ritchie meets tarantino with guts, glory, shame, and awesomeness all mixed into one. this is going to rule.


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But are you looking forward to it Matt?


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Yeah Matt, where’s the enthusiasm? *winks*
Good article Rob, immensely enjoyed reading that.
I remember reading in Sir Bobby’s autobiography that as a youth player at United he would occasionally nip over to watch Liverpool play, and the Anfield crowd would greet him warmly. Wow have times changed….
Thank god the game is early (no more 3am wake up calls for a while). Flashing back to the Inter match, and the still fresh loss at Anfield, the key word is still: midfield. Buck up please!! That damn Mascherano. Owen Hargreaves, how I miss thee.


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As an England supporter, I miss Hargreaves as well.


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both cities are 35 miles apart !?!?!?!?! really ?!?!?! are there cities who arent BOTH equally away from each other ? …


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Negative stereotypes for 40 years, alessio?? Sorry chief but thats way off the mark. For years I’ve heard our (UK) press/tv media bang on about the mystical, magical Brazilians, the ruthlessly efficient Germans and the elegant artisans that are the Italians.
We, if anything, insist upon reinforcing our own insecurities about ourselves, we consistently put ourselves down much more than any other country I know.
You might spout out “I hate those EPL wankers and their arrogant neanderthal fans” but you wouldn’t hear an Englishman condemn Serie A with such hatred, in fact, over ther years, (80’s, 90’s) we revered it, aspired to BE it, it was something we strived to achieve.
Don’t come here with your limited knowledge of English football to peddle YOUR stereotypes about US. It’s obvious to me that if you knew anything about English football, other than the last few years because then you might be forced to change your opinion.


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Rob, same here. You are not alone.


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just a quick note on a great write up .. it was 96 people who died in the disaster at Hillsborough .. DON’T BUY THE SUN.


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Dang I hate it when I’m right. With a fit Hargreaves no way in hell would it have been 4-1.
Make the hurt stop ma.













